Douglas Park: Both Michelle and Hendrik said when they were trying to work out what those coffee eggs were, they held them and they exploded !
Daniel Dewar: Which coffee eggs ?
DP: No one seems to have come across them before here or anywhere else... Eggs of coffee, like giant coffee beans that you are supposed to pulverise or load into a filter. Unless you put them in the goldfish bowl or something.
DD: Could you describe what has been happening here at Les Arques ?
DP: At here Les Ateliers des Arques, well we all seemed to have been, during our three visits, and perhaps beforehand and when we were away, we've all been mentally and physically working quite hard, struggling perhaps, suffering maybe, trying to come up with ideas, for what we are to do with this opportunity, this responsibility, how we are going to go about doing it. As well as this endless promise, anxiety (because everything is always going to happen), it's actually both sides of purgatorial, it's been enjoyable and benevolent, but also verging on the infernal, maybe not the infernal, but more unpleasant, perhaps stressful, endlessly waiting for things, for instance this recording we are doing now, actually happening on the set, promised day. But otherwise, it certainly has been enjoyable. Even though we have some ideas about what others are doing, we've all been talking, we've all visited each other, we've all shown each other what we're doing, there's been a lot of consultation and involvement, much exchange and collaboration. There's also a lot of excitement and tension, maybe there should be a word that's like a hybrid between the two, just from a practical point of view, how we are going to get everything together for the grand unveiling / public execution vernissage launch event on Saturday, and also after that for the publication.
DD: One thing I want to speak about, is the idea of the community, and the village. It seems as though we have all decided to work inside the village, instead of going outside into the countryside. Is it because we come from larger cities ? It seems as though we've decided to stay inside the village, as if it was an urban context.
DP: A lot of us were thinking about the place as being like that.
DD: Owen has painted over 270 paintings since he arrived. One for each person living in Les Arques. The more recent ones represent logos and shop signs.
DP: And the signage, for all the sorts of businesses you'd expect to find in a small town, if not a city, which he plans to plant either on buildings, or maybe even in more rural, arcadian, sylvan, pastoral locations. I remember discussing with Michelle something about there being no reality, beyond the limits of Les Arques. Its almost as though the cliche of being under some kind of not material, but some kind of force-field, not like glass, but as though you were inside a snowstorm paperweight, under a dome, inside a cloche.
DD: Does that have anything to do with her film ?
DP: Microcosm.
DD: Liza managed to excape the village. With a car and a campfire. As you described it : « A pressure cooked collaboration, a mental slide made on a night trip to a car park. »
DD : Then there's Emmanuelle's work, which she decided to locate in the village centre.
DP: Its the most visible work, and she actually uses this vitrine showcase. Although I presume the public will not be allowed access or be allowed to enter or explore, what I described as: « An 'atelier' environment (tools, materials and other 'evidence' of 'work' and 'productivity'), made and presented within a vitrine chamber ». Which in some ways to other things she's done elsewhere, either as installations or photographs, taken by professional photographers of these studio atelier environments, which she seems to work and play a lot harder at than a lot of artists working in studios to make work, rather than as work; endless changes of mind, plan and circumstance. I'm not sure, has there been much documentation of her work-in-progress?
DD: I don't think there has been any, no.
DP: The images I`ve seen like these giant photomurals. That book, 'Stellatopia', where the binding is inframince flimsy, yet the the pages are card; for that show she did in what seems like a psychiatric hospital (or as I would put it, a defrocked and struck-off former psychiatric hospital). 'Stellatopia'. It's unclear to me if thats documentation of a finished product or a process.
DD: I think the studio is used and organised for the photo.
DP: But she works extremely hard, even harder than many artists would in their act of making work or working on their studio, in the actual act of making this work, with endless changes, again, whether by choice, circumstance, merit or whatever, as to what there'll be or how it'll be presented. With or without knowledge of art, you have to imagine what these actual works might be, if you see this giant molding or whatever, how these tools have been used, how and why these things got broken. What is just part of like a workplace-environment or what is actually work or something connected to production of work. Theres quite a lot mystique and play to the fiction – I don't know if « fiction » is the right word, because what she does is very physical, material and present – it might be one of many facets to the complex matter.
DD: Mmm... let's talk about the village again, let's think of it as an abstract figure....
DP: An abstract figure? Thats almost sounding like one of the personnages in an Ossip Zadkine statue!
DD: As a conceptual figure then, of an urban space.
DP: An example, a specimen.
DD: There is the Mairie, the Musee Ossip Zadkine....
DP: The eglise, there is a restaurant; theres is the telephone kiosque near the restaurant; its near there we take our poubelles, corbeilles, camelot, garbage, refuse, rubbish.
DD: And now there is the CCLA, la Centre Culturel Les Arques.
DP: The arts centre; the kunsthalle, la musee d'art moderne.
DD: It is actually a barn, with objects in it, thats all it is. But we are we're calling it a « cultural centre ». Does that turn it into a cultural centre?
DP: It might even become one, for all we know, we have no idea what the future holds for those premises, for that building, it might well become such a development.
DD: True.... So what is happening presently with the Cultural Centre?
DP: Well, like a lot of spaces to do with the exhibition or even production of new contemporary art exhibitions, events, projects and activities, it is actually using a disused, as I would put it defrocked or struck-off, former functional building, that has some history to it and distinct architecture. In a more urban environment, that might often tie in with deindustrialisation. Because, if you notice, in urban environments, if you don't count these more institutional or academic premises that use former struck off or defrocked military hospitals, like Chelsea Millbank in London, the Stuzki (I think that means « castle ») in Warsaw, the HISK (1st in Antwerp and now in Ghent), they are all ex-military hospitals. But you know how many of these kunsthalles, spaces and museums for contemporary or modern art, not just the site, but the building is some former industrial factory or power station, the Tate Modern, the Wiels in Brussels (which is an old bauwerij, brasserie or brewery), the Baltic Exchange in Newcastle, there is even (again, not even in such a central location), la Grand Hornu, not even in, but near Mons / Bergen, in Wallonia, which is actually very well subsidised, despite being in a depressed region of a country, not even in a city like Liege or Charleroi, it is somewhere near Mons / Bergen. There have been and there still are art spaces in remote locations, like if you remember, in the North of England there was Li Yuan Chia's LYC Museum & Art Gallery, which I went to as a kid sometimes. Theres even an even an art centre in one of the Outer Isles of Scotland; in the Pays du Limousin, near Limoges, I was involved in an event there once, at a finissage, Centre d'Art et Paysage; and a lot of FRACs, like the one supposedly in Nantes or rather in or rather near Carquefou or rather Les Fleurieures – is like somewhere around the middle-of-nowhere – taking decentralisation and regionalism even further.
DD: How do you feel about the word « centre »?
DP: Centre. Well, its not clear where or what any « centre » ever is or was. The universe is actually made up of regions and provinces, not centres and capitals.
DD: And about the idea of having a centre here?
DP: Almost as though it might be something very good for the community, good for the neighbourhood, good for the local economy. Its just possible it might even lead to becoming – with or without any of our involvement or consultation – it could even actually lead to some such a development.
DD: To a very correct development?
DP: I'm also reminded of that work Marcel Broodthaers did, on the beach, at Ostend. The plan of a museum. It may have been part of his Musee d'Art Moderne Departement des Aigles or something. Plotting out the grand plan foundations of a museum, on the beach, at Ostend.
DD: And how about the fact we decided to call it the Centre Culturel and not the Centre d'Art?
DP: « Culturel » suggests there's concerts, recitals, lectures-publiques, workshops, theatre, all kinds of activities and projects presented and enacted, using the premises — or even with much that is offsite, elsewhere or with exchange or with collaboration with other organisations elsewhere.
DP: We've both become very silent. Maybe that is ominous or dormant. Would there be anything else either of us could say or ask about this aspect? Centre Culturel Les Arques, in Le Grange Vieux. Could anything else be added or said or asked?
DD: We haven't spoken of bringing together a variety of guests at the Centre Culturel. Artists that took part in the residency and artists that disn't. Michel Beutler for example, who stopped here on the way to a show, and left us with some works to install.
DP: And these guests?
DD: All the guests. The local artists, the local garage, the local boatmaker.
DP: Well, thats because, quite a few, especially I think yourself and Benjamin, in a lot of your work, you seem very concerned with, for instance the work you do with Gregory, and also Benjamin's work, is very much concerned with craft, production and more functional uses of materials and processes, other than « high art ». To some extent, theres some degree of that maybe with Owen as well, and of course, Emmanuelle. In a way that is not sort of derizive or patronising, this interest in local artists, craftspeople, enterprizes or personnages, who, for whatever reason produce whatever; its unclear to me if anyone, because I notice that the emphasis throughout the history of residencies here at Les Ateliers Des Arques, seems to be very much pro-sculpture it would seem, as well as people working in other mediums or overlap, but its not clear to me if anyone's ever done much actually engaging with or involving the locals, much or at all.
DD: The so-called « locals »?
DP: What you can loosely call locals, or people who happen to live nearby or in the region or have some other connection to Les Arques. It certainly seems, I'm just trying to imagine as well as the idea or the whole process behind all this, I'm already trying to envizage whatever the end-result or more importantly the whole experience, for all parties concerned and involved would be like. It is going to be, i think, at least in principle, at least potentially, it will be much much more and much more complex than simply presenting events or some form of presence or experience or object or exhibition. I keep also getting this idea, that when this exhibition finishes, I believe 'The Magic Porridge Pot' exhibtion finishes in September, I keep getting this idea it might not be the be-all-and-end all of it. It might be the begining of whatever.
DP: Perhaps, if I tried to say some things about the sort of guest-artists at the Centre Culturel Les Arques.
DD: O.K.
DP: There is this, sort of, perhaps collaboration, an image of yourself, locally, which was made by — or maybe even a collaboration between yourself with Liza May Post. And Hendrik Hegray, who as well as being very prolific and active with his very sort of automatiste, very gestural, very informele, almost bande-dessinée / comic-strip mutant personages. And, of course, there are these guest-artists, who will be in ‘The Magic Porridge Pot’, at the Centre Culturel Les Arques. The large sculptures by Patrick Vogel, this crushed car, almost an homage to César, John Chamberlain or Michael Landy, by Le Garage Jean-Pierre Ciercoles. Mr Labroue Klébert’s woodcarvings and turnings of mushrooms, toadstools, fungi and other flora. Very sympathetic I think to, without saying too much already about what Benjamin’s monument will be, this flat-hulled boat by Olivier Roland. And Michael Beutler, who will be showing, as of tomorrow, in Toulouse. Michael Beutler will be presenting these very shamanistic seeming bamboo staffs with coloured threads wrapped around them. As well as much traditional art, craft and other practices, I get very reminded of Andre Cadere’s “Barres de Bois Rondes” or “Feral Ingots” as I call them, as well as work by the Groupe Supports/Surfaces, and that American artist, working with coloured threads, Fred Sandbach. Again, more connotations of traditional — or even perhaps innovative handicraft. So, again, I just somehow find that that the sort of craft or festivity nature of all this, does seem to be, at least potentially, more sympathetic or engaged with this kind of environment, this kind of context, this, I suppose opportunity.
DD: And how about Kaiser Kraft?
DP: Kaiser Kraft. Stephane Barbier Bouvet and Benjamin Valenza. Their main input has been all the graphic design, including the logo for the Centre Culturel Les Arques, where they’ve almost compressed all the letters, so there’s no diagonals or roundness, all vertical and horizontal, almost into a block. Also, they’re doing the décor and the scenography, the interface between the exhibition and the bricks & mortar architecture of the grange vieux, which is now converted into the Centre Culturel Les Arques. Again, there’s these usual issues of practical and ethical points of views, about how sympathetic, or maybe even a complete rift or break with what the physical architecture and appearance of the place and how that can be best suited to display, present or house the work, just from a practical point of view, as well as aesthetic or anything else. I understand they’re doing much of the actual work, the physical labor on the grange vieux that is now the Centre Culturel Les Arques, they’re doing that themselves, within a very limited timescale.
DD: The CCLA is generating a lot of work.
DP: My own work for all this, this sort of prose story I’ve written as well, 1 or 2 things that happen in that, which I was able to actually define and write down as notules inutiles, then somehow or other generate some imagery out of and phrase in a prosaic manner. A couple of them actually relate to things that I saw or noticed about the grange vieux. So to some extent, that building or that context has at the very least influenced certain aspects of what we have done or works we are doing, even as you put it almost generated work.
DD: Exactly.
DP: It’s certainly had some degree of influence.
DD: As if you were the public writer for the cultural event, as if Hendrik had set up the print shop for the cultural event. And the gift shop....
DP: The gift shop, that’s correct, yes, with the ceramics. Mugs with noses for handles. You’re also saying something about handpainted t-shirts.
DD: Owen’s making some potato cutouts…
DP: Oh, the potato prints…
DD: On t-shirts, with telephone numbers…
DP: Oh, the telephone numbers, which sometimes appear in his unbelievably prolific art-life crossover paintings.
DD: He’s also making… “Owen, are they lamps?” He’s gone.
DP: Do you mean those things with the vinyl records, in plaster? And he’s also made one of these works, similar to what he’s done earlier, these paintings based on gold, platinum, lead or maybe even plastic discs.
DD: The CCLA will take place in the middle of nowhere. And its gift shop will be selling multiple editions made by the artists on residncy.
DP: But, yes, they’re seemingly mostly often handmade. O.K, so Hendrik will be using print technology, to some extent, but otherwise, its mostly sort of very hand-done, it’s a sort of latterday embodiment of… again, to refer to something of great importance to your own practice with Grégory Gicquel, William Morris’ “Arts & Crafts” movement and ideals. As well as perhaps, also, just from the notion of being somewhere remote, makes you think of Land Art, Robert Smithson, entropy. Then there’s these things I remember identifying in connection with your work, like the “Creleisure” (creative-leisure) of Helio Oiticica, that was neither productivity, consumption or supposed “leisure”, it really was beyond all that. And other ideals, such as Henry Flynt’s notions, with odd names to them, “Brend”, I’m not sure if I can pronounce it “Innperseqs”, “Veramusement”, instead of art or institutionalized culture. And the “Meaningless Work”, proposed by Walter De Maria.
DD: And buyers, in order to get these really cheap multiple editions...
DP: Ah, there’ll be terms, conditions and forfeits, it won’t be easy?…
DD: The CCLA is the only place you will find such cheap works by the artists it's showing. This is the only place in the world you can get a multiple edition for ten Euros by Owen Piper.
DP: Right. And it can’t… there’s no mail order. You, actually, they actually…
DD & DP: Have to come here.
DP: Mohammed actually has to come to the mountain — unless it’s the mountain actually has to come to Mohammed. That is good! And then there’s, in fact, one of the first people, I think, during the first weekend here, to come up with an idea, for what they expected or intended to do, was Michelle Naismith’s film. I do not know if she’s come up with a title for it yet. My attempt, as I would put it, to define that, ended up as, a fictitious kind of institution, that seemed to be something to do with the rehabilitation of people, with all these scenarios enacted, both here and elsewhere, as though that were part of their… as though they were being reconditioned back into society or work, after some kind of illness or whatever.
©, Copyright, Daniel Dewar & Douglas Park
“Conversation” with Daniel Dewar (English / French, translated by Eloise Roch), in 'The Magic Porridge Pot', group publication, edited by Daniel Dewar & Hendrik Hegray, Les Ateliers des Arques, Les Arques, 2013 (Also including prose story: ‘Crime-Scene Interior-Décor Vista & Forensic-Evidence Merchandise Reliquaries’ (same translator)
https://ateliersdesarques.com/residences/the-magic-porridge-pot
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